Space & Astronomy/Space and Astronomy (October 1993).iso/mac/TEXT/SPACEDIG/V09_3/V9_366.TXT

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Subject: SPACE Digest V9 #366

SPACE Digest                                      Volume 9 : Issue 366

Today's Topics:
             Re: Primordial Hydrocarbons
        Re: Success with cold fusion reported
            Re: Space terminology
           Re: space news from Feb 20 AW&ST
         Re: astrology (or effect of moon on people)
               On sun blocking
                Re: Empty Mir?
          UFOs (Aliens), mir, and our space station
          Re: U.S. vs Soviet space stations
        Re: Soviets will suspend manned space program
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: 11 Apr 89 13:07:27 GMT
From: mcvax!kth!draken!chalmers!tekno.chalmers.se![e-mail]  (Mikael Lerner)
Subject: Re: Primordial Hydrocarbons

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Mike Wooding) writes:
> < > As luck would have it, last night's NOVA episode was on exactly
> < > this topic.  The outfit in Sweden found methane, but not enough
> < > to make the well viable at this time.  They said that the gas
> < > had been verified as being of non-biological origin, but they
> < > didn't explain how they had verified this.
> <
> <     Please, notice the word 'digging'! The drill hasn't stopped
> <     yet! Almost a kilometer of drilling remains. The goal is
> <     7500 m, where the large amounts of gas is thought to be found.
>
>  When do they expect to finish the hole? Are they finding more/less
>  gas/oil than expected? Sources?
>

    In July if everything works well. It probably won't. The bottom
    of the hole has been redrilled 4 or 5 times by now due to all
    problems...

    They have found significant amounts of gas, which seems to
    originate from the interior of Earth. BUT, it is far from
    beeing commercial, and I doubt that this will change when
    they finish. The idea right now is that there is a
    layer of compact rocks at approximately 7500 m and that
    the gas accumulates below this layer. Seismological measure-
    ments indicate that there is such a layer. However, these
    measurements have also pointed out several possible layers
    at lower depth, but no gas has shown up yet. The rocks are so
    crushed that the gas slowly coming from below, probably
    finds its way up to the surface at the same rate.

    The hole will probably show that Gold was right ( :-) ), but it
    will probably not suply Sweden with cheap gas... ( :-< )

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mikael Lerner                               "This is the way the world ends,
[e-mail]                 not with a bang, but a whimper."
Chalmers University of Technology, Sweden                      T.S. Eliot

------------------------------

Date:         Tue, 11 Apr 89 18:13:54 EDT
From: [e-mail]

Hi there,

     Gentlemen and ladies, a story from the real world.  I am student
teaching in a high school of students ranging from lower lower class to
upper middle class.  While observing a lower track science course, I
overheard the following during a unit on solar energy, "You mean that
there are places on the earth where it's, like, dark and people are, like
, sleeping?"  This kind of question isn't too far removed from the norm.
It is easy to forget that the common individual is highly misinformed when
you spend a great deal of time in higher education or research.

     The state of education is in dire straits but not entirely due to bad
educators.  After student teaching I am blameing it on braindead students.

                                    Chip Dawes
                                    R3CGD@AKRONVM

Disclaimer:  I don't work for anyone, so my boss can't get into trouble for
            any thing I say

------------------------------

Date: 11 Apr 89 00:49:37 GMT
From: mitel!sce!cognos!geovision![e-mail]  (Paul Tomblin)
Subject: Re: Success with cold fusion reported

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Jim Warford) writes:
>In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Richard Frost) writes:
>>
>>Although utility companies are required to by any excess power you generate
>>[discussion of expensed you would incur]
>I believe you also have to provide 1 million dollars in liability insurance


Wait a minute here!  Aren't we forgetting something? If people are going
to put fusion reactors in their back yards, what the heck is the power
company going to need to buy you power for?  Sure, the law in some
states requires the utility to buy back power, but who are they going to
sell it to?

"For sale, 2 bedroom condo, must sell, can't fit a fusion reactor in the
closet"
--
Paul Tomblin,  First Officer, Golgafrinchan B Ark       | PANIC - Bad Neuron
    UUCP:   nrcaer!cognos!geovision!pt ??               | address list.
    Disclaimer: The opinions expressed here aren't      | "My brain hurts"
    necessarily even mine!                              |

------------------------------

Date: 12 Apr 89 04:24:49 GMT
From: blake![e-mail]  (William Lewis)
Subject: Re: Space terminology

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Floyd McWilliams) writes:
>    If an object is in orbit around a larger body, that object is
>called a "satellite."  So what is the larger body called?

   The larger body is called the "primary" ...

------------------------------

Date: 12 Apr 89 07:40:17 GMT
From: [e-mail]  (Charles Daffinger)
Subject: Re: space news from Feb 20 AW&ST

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Henry Spencer) writes:
>
>Pratt&Whitney offers various upgrades for the RL10 engine to Centaur
>customers; business is booming.  Some of the upgrades are derived
>from work done on the late, lamented Shuttle-Centaur program.
>

What was the Shuttle-Centaur program, and why did it croak?




-charles
--
Charles Daffinger  >Take me to the river, Drop me in the water<  [phone]
[e-mail]              {pur-ee,rutgers,pyramid,ames}!iuvax!cdaf
Home of the Whitewater mailing list:    [e-mail]

------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 11 Apr 89 22:48 CST
From: Scott Hess <[e-mail]>
Subject:  Re: astrology (or effect of moon on people)

}In article <Added.MY_DYiy00Ui3Q=[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Why
} is there only one Monopolies Commission?) writes:
}>I mean, maybe the moon has some effect on noctournal animals, but if you're
}>trying to defend the age-old astrologer's "the moon effects the tides, and
}>they're water, and since the human body is 98% water, the moon must affect
}>people" argument, then I would really love to see some data on that.
}
}Not to lend any support to pseudo-science, but an interesting thing to look
}at in this respect is the police blotter of any large urban area on the
}night of a full moon.  I have heard the same story from several police
}officers here in Pittsburgh - craaazy things happen when there's a full
}moon, not just your run-of-the-mill stabbings and domestic violence, but
}the truly bizzarre.  Of course, this is probably purely subjective - people
}see a full moon and all their inhibitions go out the window, but an
}interesting phenomenon nonetheless.
}--
}Jim Benz              [e-mail]     If a modem

OR, More than likely, they see these weird happenings, and notice there's
a full moon. Probably not too noticable if you go at the end of the year
and look where there was a full moon, and also elsewhere, for weird things.
If there is a correlation, could it be the increased visibility? If its
dark out, nobody will see you doing weird things, and most weird things
are done for attention (subconcious, maybe).

Scott Hess,
<[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 11 Apr 89 22:59 CST
From: Scott Hess <[e-mail]>
Subject:  On sun blocking

Using sun blocking films, or whatnot, would take a LOT of material. Hopefully,
before the time comes when we need it, we can manufacture it at the place
its needed (space). could also make much better stuff, I assume, if we use
all the neato effects null gravity is supposed to give. To take care of the
size problems, maybe the whole thing could be moved in closer to the sun? I
can foresee problems, tho, because to keep it in time with the earth, it
would have to be a forced orbit. Maybe we can use sun blockers like in
Larry Niven's Ringworld (if we could do that ...)

Scott Hess,
<[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: 12 Apr 89 18:25:47 GMT
From: aero!venera.isi.edu![e-mail]  (Craig Milo Rogers)
Subject: Re: Empty Mir?

from the Los Angeles Times, Wed 12 Apr 89, Part I page 10:

    In Sign of Budget Crubch, Soviets Will Shut Space Lab

"MOSCOW -- The Soviet Union's three-year-old orbiting space station
Mir will be evacuated at the end of this month and mothballed, Soviet
authorities disclosed Tuesday amid indications that the Kremlin is
sharply scaling back its ambitious space program."

    Summary of the rest of the article:

1)    The cosmonauts on board are deactivating and mothballing Mir.
    The 19 Apr 89 replacement crew is canceled.

2)    Mir add-on modules are postponed.

3)    The shutdown may be linked to attempts to reduce the Soviet
    Union's $160 billion deficit this year, as well as popular
    disenchantment with the space program.

4)    The Soviet manned space program has been strongly criticized
    by the Soviet Academy of Sciences as expensive and unproductive.

5)    Consumer goods production will take a higher priority role
    in Soviet planning.  "Mars, Venus, the stars will be there
    10 years from [now], just as they are today."

6)    Mir's shutdown may be linked to the failure of the Phobos
    probes.


    So much for the content of the LA Times article.  Here's
speculation on my part:  the Soviet manned space program was precariously
supported, and a primary goal was developing technology for a manned Mars
expedition, say by 2017.  Failure of the Phobos probes required that
the Mars expedition be postponed, hence manned adaptation work in Mir is
no longer high priority.  On the other hand, there may have been a
failure with Mir itself, as was implied by Glenn Chapman's message.

    Of course, this probably means that the $10 million "tourist
class" reservations are cancelled.

    I believe that the Mir shutdown is a major blow to the US
pro-NASA manned space community, as it eliminates the "keeping up with
the Joneses" argument.  It will be much more difficult to defend the
budget for the NASA space station now.  Jim Bowery, rejoice.

                    Craig Milo Rogers

------------------------------

Date:     Tue, 11 Apr 89 17:29 CST
From: Scott Hess <[e-mail]>
Subject:  UFOs (Aliens), mir, and our space station

on UFOs (aliens)

>article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Matthew T. DeLuca) says:
>% Xref: nsc sci.space:10525 rec.ham-radio:1611 talk.rumors:915
> misc.headlines:12001
>% In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Stuart Warmink) writes:
>%>Ah, but who said they would want to contact the US government!   :->
>%>("Wellcome, Comrad Alien")
>%>--
>% Well, from orbit, the United States is clearly the most advanced nation on
>% Earth.  More roads, dams, and bridges are in the U.S. than anywhere else on
>% Earth.  Compared to the U.S., the Soviet Union is third-rate, at best.
>
> Assumming of course that the aliens believe paving over the earth is a sign
>of an advanced civilization and not a sign of a very primative culture.
>
> Ken-

Very good point. An optimistic view of our future sees us controlling the
population explosion (yeah, right), and also our wanton environmental
destruction, and getting back to basics, in a new way. Say we got transfer-
booths (Star Trek, here we come). If they were simple enough, and robust
enough, we could move our houses anywhere, raising the population in most
areas, but cuttin down on the concentrations. Hopefully cutting down on
pollution also. Maybe, on the surface, we'd appear to have an agratarian
society, while actually, we would have to be plus plus advanced.

Mir and our space station

>This seems like the best reason for bringing Salyut 7 down
>in one bit. Taking it apart in a laboratory back on Earth
>will provide the Soviets with a lot of very valuable
>information on how materials and machinery wear and
>deteriorate during long term exposure to conditions in orbit.
>
>Build for a short lifetime, analyse anything that goes
>wrong, re-design, re-build. That seems to be the usual
>Soviet space exploration technique.
>
>Contrast with the NASA method of a designing the space
>station to have a 30 year life expectancy, using new alloys
>and plastics, none of which have had any long term exposure
>to conditions in orbit.
>    Bob.

It looks like the main difference is in outlook. We comp. sci. people get
told again and again that engineers don't just build a bridge and hope it
works. It has to works the first time. Meanwhile, software tends to get
built incrementally. First, a working version is built and then its added
on to. This has its advantages and disadvantages, most of which are hard
to tell which they are. The main reason engineers can build a bridge the
first time and have it work at all is that there are proven bridge-building
rules, tested over thousands of years. The environment, while not perfectly
known, is pretty much a constant and can be planned for. When programming
computers, one must plan for every possible outcome, because some idiot
(read as novice user, ie: not the original programmer) will come along and
crash it, along with 3 months of irreplacable data. But, I don't see any
rules for the users coming along in the near future. Maybe 1,000 yrs from
now ... :)

Anyway, the way I see it, we haven't got any rules for building in space,
and at the rate we're going its going to take a while to get any. So
prototyping spacestations/craft is the way to go. NASA could put together
their 10**n (where n->infinity) dollar spacestation, and have it not work
any longer than Mir II, a conglomeration of components. Or better yet, design
this thing and end up continually adding to it in the prototyping tradition
anyway.

Scott Hess,
<[e-mail]>

------------------------------

Date: 12 Apr 89 13:52:51 GMT
From: mailrus!shadooby!accuvax.nwu.edu!tank!shamash!com50!questar![e-mail]  (David Becker)
Subject: Re: U.S. vs Soviet space stations

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Matthew T. DeLuca) writes:
> What wondrous capabilities is New Mir expected to have that Freedom won't?
> From what I have heard of the Novy Mir project (which, admittedly isn't much,
> it sounds like another tin can station, or perhaps two tin cans stuck together

Two tin cans in space are worth one gold brick on the ground.

> Again, assuming no further delays (I can always hope), I feel fairly sure that
> our station will be better.  As to the contractors, there is a difference
Mir proved they can continuously operate a tin can for years and they now know
alot more than NASA about what would make a nifty space station.  The
Novy Mir can be expected to be much better at its mission than our Gold Brick.


> And again, and again, and again...ad nausaeum.
at least they do try again and again. what would happen to NASA's
planetary budget if it had a couple spectacular failures?  Without its
string of spectacular successes in planetary stuff would the program
even exist?
--
David Becker
and another bug bites, and another bug bites   another bug bites the dust
[e-mail]

------------------------------

Date: 12 Apr 89 22:44:29 GMT
From: prism![e-mail]  (Matthew DeLuca)
Subject: Re: Soviets will suspend manned space program

In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] (Peter Yee) writes:
>     In an abrupt turnabout on its premier space achievement, the Soviet
> Union has decided to suspend its manned space program at the end of this
> month, apparently for economic reasons.
>
     Wow.  But whatever the balance sheet may say, I seriously doubt the
Soviets will stay on the ground for long.  A lot of the Soviet's prestige
in the last couple of years has come from their manned space activities, and
I seriously doubt they want to give it up.  Besides, the hard currency brought
in from flying foreign missions is important to the Soviet economy.

Matthew DeLuca                      :
Georgia Institute of Technology     : Certainty is the lot of those who
ARPA: [e-mail]      :           do not question.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of SPACE Digest V9 #366
*******************